[Nigvekar] What Dr.Kalam, CAG, CIC & UPSC members told him + Age-attempt reduction arguments (Part 1 of 4)

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Mitrapal Philosophy
  1. Prologue
    1. [Input] From UPSC members: Rajni Razdan, Alka Sirohi, KK Paul
    2. [Input] UPSC members: IMG Khan & Lt.Gen Surinder Nath (retired)
    3. [Input] Dr.APJ Kalam
    4. [Input] Directors of LBSNAA, SVNPA, IIPM, NDA et al
    5. [Input] CIC Satyananda Mishra
    6. [Input] CAG Vinod Rai
  2. Why Reduce Age Attempt Limit?
    1. #1: Most toppers are from 21-28 age group
    2. #2: Research scholarship misused for UPSC prep
    3. #3: Eminent People agree
    4. #4: Older toppers are inflexible in training
    5. #5: Older Toppers are corrupt & selfish (!)
    6. LBSNAA Director disagrees on age reduction
  3. Why Reduce No. of Attempts?
    1. #1: Youth wasting their life
    2. #2: Reserve category: Age relax yes, but same attempt
    3. #3: Toppers misuse attempt
    4. #4: CAG Vinod Rai: Attrition of IA&AS toppers
    5. #5: LBSNAA Director: Menace of Dropouts
  4. Nigvekar: Final report on Age/Attempt limit
  5. Download Original Report of Nigvekar Committee

Prologue

Highlight of Nigvekar report (four parts)

  • part1: Input from eminent people to Nigvekar, Age –attempt limit
  • part2: prelim reforms
  • part3: mains reforms
  • part4: Interview reforms

Nigvekar report- feedback from President CAG CIC

[Input] From UPSC members: Rajni Razdan, Alka Sirohi, KK Paul

26/2/2012: Nigvekar interacts with UPSC members: Rajni Razdan, Alka Sirohi, KK Paul, Nirmal Sharma, et al. During the meeting, following suggestions came:

  1. Prelims and mains can be clubbed together. (= just one exam then interview)
  2. In UK and France, there are no optional subjects. We should follow the same method. (=remove optionals)
  3. Remove the regional language paper.
  4. Age limit : 21-26
  5. Fix Minimum marks or percentile in graduation. Don’t let everyone apply for the prelims.
  6. Online prelims, score card with two years’ validity. (= senior player need not appear in prelims again).
  7. Review exam system after every five years.
  8. Re-design interview system to assess the “SOFT QUALITIES” of candidates- e.g. emotional quotients, man management skills, and leadership qualities etc.
  9. Psychological testing of candidates- on the model of Defense institute of psychological research.

[Input] UPSC members: IMG Khan & Lt.Gen Surinder Nath (retired)

  1. If the Committee wants to bring any radical change, its acceptance may be a difficult proposition since there has been a tendency of having a status-quo.
  2. The basic qualities which are required from a civil servant are a person having an all-round personality, a strong character, moral courage, honesty and integrity. The existing system does not cater to above and we have to identify this deficiency and resolve it.
  3. We have four options available before us, namely,
    1. continuing with the present system where more emphasis is towards academic qualities;
    2. to devise a test mechanism to assess the strength and knowledge of the candidate in a subject to be dealt in his service career, like done in France;
    3. Select the candidates from 10+2 level. Put them in an academy and train.
    4. UK system: case studies on first stage and third stage of the examination.
  4. Qualities of toppers are not found to be very good. There is general rote-learning approach among them.
  5. optional subjects and their syllabi are not of uniform standard.
  6. Some subjects are more preferred by the candidates and there are lots of papers which are overlapping in nature.
  7. General Studies tries to cover huge range of topics from variety of subjects which some times becomes impossible for the candidates to cover. Instead of existing General Studies paper UPSC should introduce two papers in line with three compulsory paper suggested by Alagh Committee and all the testing may be done in objective format.
  8. Essays also have become a matter of rote. Instead of the conventional Essay paper, the candidates may be asked to write a paper on an issue on which some basic data can be provided. Précis should be brought back.
  9. It may be difficult to get rid of optional paper. Therefore, one optional paper may be kept in the scheme of examination which is more akin to the academic area and another subsidiary subject (may be of less weightage and of the lower level) that will provide inter disciplinary approach. it would remove the scorability sector.
  10. Single answer paper may be evaluated by more than one examiner to assess different facets. (in other words, right now single answerpaper is evaluated by just one examiner, irrespective of what UPSC’s official site claims!)

[Input] Dr.APJ Kalam

#1: Ethics in Mains

  • Selection processes across the world lay stress on testing ethical aptitude.
  • For example- Certified Financial Analyst (CFA) exam in USA.
  • Full course on ethics and business is being taught in IIM-A.
  • Such a test can be designed for objective evaluation of candidates. Such ethical test should cover
    1. ethical administration
    2. Impartiality: working in a diverse, multicultural environment and maintaining fairness in transaction.
    3. Principles of natural justice
    4. Maintain ethical transaction in situation of stress from higher authorities and conflicting information system
    5. Encourage others to maintain ethics in their transaction
    6. finally, the candidate should be able to treat all the citizens as he would like to be treated himself.

(Mrunal comments: in part III of this report series, we’ll see that Nigvekar’s original syllabus for GS4 did not contain much ethics. But UPSC had incorporated a larger syllabus of ethics. So perhaps, it was based on above recommendations of Dr.Kalam)

#2: Reform Interview system

In Armed forces, grade-I officers are selected after a psychology test. Such mechanism/method should be included in civil service as well. The interview panel should include a professional psychologist or a CEO with a proven track record of working with integrity and succeeding with integrity.

  1. For studying the effectiveness of the selection system, UPSC may use the service of a professional consultant every five years to determine the co-relation between the UPSC ranking and field performance of the candidate.
  2. Involvement of UPSC in the training and post-training placement: Must be minimal. However; UPSC can take part in a review of the selected candidate after the training period at post-training establishments for assessing the relationship between the aspiration of the candidate before selection and the tasks which he or sheds going to perform after the training period.
  3. UPSC should employ a strategic management consultant to study and bring out the best performing civil service officers through detailed case studies. This case material can become a reference material for the civil service aspirant and also the civil service probationers in different institutions.
  4. There must be a system of celebrating best performers in the district.

[Input] Directors of LBSNAA, SVNPA, IIPM, NDA et al

10/4/2012: Nigvekar meets with the heads of various training academies. Following suggestions came:

  1. Candidates select optional subjects by the advice of the coaching-institutes which claims to have an expertise to predict the scorability factor. => restrict candidates from selecting only the subjects studied at graduation level.
  2. Coaching classes thrive on predictability factor of this exam- they’re the most undesirable activities in present day scenario.
  3. The present system doesn’t measure non-cognitive skills of a candidate. It is difficult for the interview board also to read the mind of the candidates within such a short interview span.
  4. Give training to the interviewers!
  5. Interview board should enforce that candidate is not saying anything which is tutored by coaching classes. In UK – they give candidate a home test and the same test is given again when they come for interview. If difference of marks is more than 30%, he is not taken in because they believe that the home test was copied from somewhere and this certainly reflects on one’s integrity. The idea of this test is to judge the moral dimension and integrity of a candidate. Therefore ethical values of the candidates must be tested.

[Input] CIC Satyananda Mishra

Now Ex-CIC but in 2012 he was the CIC.

  1. IAS officers have some sense of elitism which has lowered the sense of serving the people. On the other band the expectations of the public has grown up with increasing number of rights granted to them through amendments in the constitution of India.
  2. Media has become more pervasive and civil societies have become active. The UPSC notifies Civil Services Examination but this Notice does not clarify what each civil service actually is, and what are the responsibility involved.
  3. Candidates are given large number of attempts, within which a pattern which can be mastered by the grace of coaching institute. Therefore, there is an emergent need to reduce the upper age limit as well as the number of chances.
  4. Instead of optional paper the candidate should be tested on common subjects which will certainly give advantages to the bright lot.
  5. Regional language paper is redundant (useless) because 66% of the toppers are posted outside their home-state.

[Input] CAG Vinod Rai

  1. Probationers in the Indian Audit and Accounts Service were found to be lacking language skill, especially in English language. English continues to be a language of communication in the country. (Regional) Language medium is adding complexity to the situation.
  2. Testing of optional subject is essential. If a student of science background is capable to crack. the examination with an optional subject like Public Administration or Geography his proficiency level high.
  3. Age limit of 30 years is too high because a candidate selected at a higher age group is found to be less trainable and becomes easy prey -to corruption. As a person ages, the basic value system of a person changes. Ideal upper age limit should be 26 years.
  4. Since toppers from less preferred services continue re-appearing in civil service exam. Such as situation is causing very high rate of attrition which is about 25% every year in Indian audit and account service. This is causing colossal loss of national resources.
  5. Candidate should have atleast 50% marks in 12th std or graduation level

–enough inputs from eminent people (you can read more under Ch.4 and Annex1), now let’s start with Nigvekar’s report itself–

Why Reduce Age Attempt Limit?

Nigvekar’s arguments starts from Ch4, Page59 onwards

#1: Most toppers are from 21-28 age group

  • From the statistical data of 2007-2011, it is found that most candidates get selected in the age group of 21 to 28 years.
  • Higher age limit leads to loss of productive years and the self-confidence of the candidates who keep making repeated attempts in this examination.

#2: Research scholarship misused for UPSC prep

(ch3 page 54)

  • Unemployed aspirants are funded by central government or state government scholarships (for research).
  • However it is also found that aspirants donot utilize their grants for what they’re meant (research), instead it is seen as a safety net and a regular source of income during the preparation of civil service exam, while (such) aspirant usually devotes 5-9 hours on preparation daily.

#3: Eminent People agree

Eminent peopleWhat they recommended to Nigvekar
some UPSC members26 years
UPSC’s own research wing25 years
CAG Vinod Rai26 years

#4: Older toppers are inflexible in training

Ch4, Page62

  • This Committee, in its deliberation with various stakeholders as well as other eminent persons and heads of training academies was informed that the upper age limit of 30 years is affecting the quality of intake.
  • They felt that a person recruited at an older age becomes inflexible in nature and cannot be moulded suitably as per the desired skills of civil servants.
  • A policy of “catch them young” will certainly help better trainability and shaping the mindset of the candidate. Officers starting at a younger age would be more energetic, optimistic, enthusiastic, ready to take challenges and can perform well in comparison to those who join late and have accumulated family obligations and become less dynamic.

#5: Older Toppers are corrupt & selfish (!)

Ch4, Page61

  • At the age of 30 and above, recruits can hardly be thus molded. By this age, an average person would have spent five to seven years after leaving educational institutions and might have held some jobs. Without prejudice to those jobs, it may be stated that such jobs are not always likely to be of a nature that will prepare a candidate for the civil services.
  • The result of higher age limit is recruitment of rather older persons who might have already developed a self-centric worldview, and are not, very likely to change their attitudes after being recruited into the civil services.
  • Furthermore, if they join at a late age, their chances of rising to the highest positions get reduced. This could adversely affect their career outlook and morale. They are more likely to take bribes and misusing public office for personal gain.
  • It is, therefore, very important that, as far as possible, the field of recruitment for the civil services be confined to fresh graduates/ post graduate candidates of a relatively younger age.
  • Nigvekar  therefore recommend the upper age limit should be reduced by following the principle of “catch them young” so that the selected lot can be moulded and trained for making good civil servants.

Mrunal comments:
Then why was there Sukhna land scam, canteen scams and Ketchup colonel in Indian army ….despite that fact that all such officers were recruited “young” through NDA/CDS exams?
Consider this:

Sarkaari Naukariupper age to apply
United nations Civil service exam32
USA: IRS special agent (Internal Revenue Service)37
France40 (provided the candidate has 8 years’ work-experience)

So, on Nigvekar logic- UN, French and American bureaucracy out to be the most bogus, corrupt and inefficient in the world.
Ye Delhi ke Uncle-ji log (Chairman DP Aggarwal, Prof.Nigvekar)…they live in a fantasy world, they think only two type of candidates appear in UPSC:

Category “A”Senior playersall of them are automatically crooks & rot-learners, they’ve spent lakhs in coaching and want to recover crores via bribes and dowry.
Category “B”First timersall of them are automatically honest, they’ve have never taken coaching, they will never demand bribes and dowry.

In Aggarwal / Nigvekar’s world-There is no “C” category i.e. people from small towns and villages, who involuntarily became senior due to lack of awareness booklist-strategy, and who are continuously massacred as innocent bystanders while UPSC tries to protect “B” category from “A” category through its BackbreakingTM moves.

LBSNAA Director disagrees on age reduction

LBSNAA Director Param Vir Singh’s input on page 164

  •  (some) People are entering Civil Service at the age of 37 years. It is a good sign that people are coming from diverse technical backgrounds.
  • I would feel that we should not loose them since they can bring new set of skills, competencies, practices.
  • I’m not conservative about age. A person can bring his experience in to the civil service if he had worked anywhere else earlier.
  • DONOT allow toppers to re-appear in the exam again. HE must not be given leave for this purpose. The dropouts from training academy have become a nightmare and an endless business.
  • Total marks of selection should be balanced between UPSC evaluation (50%) and evaluation by the Training academy (50%).
  • Candidates should be counseled by the academy for allocation of service.

Why Reduce No. of Attempts?

Nigvekar gives his arguments in Ch4, Page62

  • High number of attempts leads to high attrition in various services and vacancies are left unfilled in the services in real terms.
  • More importantly, this also leads to favoring candidates who are able to get a distinct advantage on account of experience in the examination system and promotes learning by rote.
  • There is also a colossal waste of human efforts and financial loss to the government towards imparting training to candidates who leave the training in the mid-way.
  • Even ARC recommended a reduced number of 03 attempts for general category candidates, 05 attempts for OBC, 06 for SC/ST and PH category candidates.

#1: Youth wasting their life

  • Due to large number of permissible attempts in the Civil Services Examination, a large number of youth may be wasting their precious years in life.
  • At the end of the entire process after repeated unsuccessful attempts, quite a few of them may not remain employable since repeated attempts at the examination promote rote learning and general frustration.
  • This may also be a cause for creating a negative attitude and frustration.
  • There is a need for channeling their energy to productive work.

#2: Reserve category: Age relax yes, but same attempt

  • Equal number of chances will not pose any problem to any particular community/category. This would, in fact allow better candidates from all categories to qualify in the civil services.
  • The age relaxation for various categories could continue, in order to compensate candidates for delays faced by them in obtaining the required minimum qualification on account of their social or physical disabilities.

#3: Toppers misuse attempt

  • Successful candidates donot stop giving Civil service exam. They channelize their efforts in getting a better rank in the next attempt, instead of focusing on job-training.
  • This results into High attrition rate amongst various services since candidates are availing further chances after getting selected only in order to improve their ranks and try to get a service which, in their opinion, is better than the service which they have been offered earlier.
  • It is, in a way, a great wastage of public money and resources.
  • This also leads to vacancies remaining unfilled in quite a few of the services in practical terms.
  • Therefore there should be some restrictions on multiple attempts by a selected candidate.
  • IAS and IFS toppers are prohibited from giving attempts again. Similar rules need to be created for other services.

#4: CAG Vinod Rai: Attrition of IA&AS toppers

  1. Toppers from less preferred services continue re-appearing in civil service exam.
  2. Such as situation is causing very high rate of attrition which is about 25% every year in Indian audit and account service.
  3. This is causing colossal loss of national resources.

#5: LBSNAA Director: Menace of Dropouts

  • DONOT allow toppers to re-appear in the exam again.
  • HE must not be given leave for this purpose.
  • The dropouts from training academy have become a nightmare and an endless business.

Nigvekar: Final report on Age/Attempt limit

WHAT NIGVEKAR RECOMMENDED (2012)PRESENT SYSTEM (2014)
  • General 25 years
  • OBC: 28 years
  • SC/ST: 30 years
Age limit: 21-32 for general category, with suitable relaxation for reserved categories [As per 2014 DoPT circular]
  • 5 attempts irrespective of category He belongs to
Attempts: 6 attempts for General category, with suitable relaxation for reserved categories [As per 2014 DoPT circular]
Only one more for topper in trainingno such limitation

Download Original Report of Nigvekar Committee

for the public record, I’ve uploaded entire report (minus a few useless pages) on following link
https://files.secureserver.net/0fxmWGvTEcjmND
Total 50+MB. and I don’t recommend you download his report (and waste your internet bandwidth). The reasons are following

  1. ch1 talks about evolution of civil service exam- from British Raj till now. The summary already available in 2nd ARC reports. This chapter is deep Ph.D, useless for studies- even for Public Administration.
  2. ch2 talks about the recommendations of Committees before Nigvekar (Kothari, Khanna, Alagh etc. but their summary also available in 2nd ARC report- in more eye candy fonts. This pdf is not as high quality as 2nd ARC.)
  3. Ch3, 4, 5, 6 and annex 1 are covered in my [Nigvekar] series four articles)
  4. Annex 2 deals with recruitment system in USA, France etc. = useless because that syllabus topic was helpful in MCQs of Public Administration prelims. But now prelims doesn’t have optional subjects.

Visit Mrunal.org/RTI for more RTI misadventures.

Mrunal recommends

  1. (free) NCERT, NIOS, TN-Books 4 History,Geo,Sci
  2. Indian Polity M.Laxmikanth (Hindi | English)
  3. Spectrum: Modern History (Hindi | English)
  4. Maths: Quantam CAT Sarvesh Kumar
  5. Objective General English SP Bakshi
  6. Word Power made Easy -Norman Lowe
  7. Topic wise Solved Paperset by Disha

80 Comments on “[Nigvekar] What Dr.Kalam, CAG, CIC & UPSC members told him + Age-attempt reduction arguments (Part 1 of 4)”

  1. according to this i am a c category student

  2. sir,
    May I know if civil service pattern of examination will be changing every year? Its very difficult to stabilize our mind.

    1. One ex-IAS Officer advice the Government in one way..Other in other way..another in another way … Central Government and UPSC want to implement all of them at a time for the “more transparency” in the Exam…Finally the fools are the Candidates..Dirty administration..

  3. “Successful candidates donot stop giving Civil service exam. They channelize their efforts in getting a better rank in the next attempt, instead of focusing on job-training”

    Maybe they should not take the Job if they want to get a better rank…this seriously ruins the opportunity of others and a total waste of resources….

    1. Why do you think so Mr.Vignesh?? Growth is the Fundamental Right of Every Individual..May be you are also appearing for the UPSC Civils Exam for the High Position in the Society..According to you, you are spoiling the chances of all the persons who are behind you.Amn’t I ?? We have to think with a broader view instead of narrow personal interest ..Then only one can serve the country as civil servant..I am saying this with my 03 Years Small Experience in State Government of Andhra Pradesh

  4. its surprising to note that senior IAS officers r in d opinion to reduce number of attempt and age.. they sit in AC offices and make these kind of bogus and rubish reports…
    corruption has nothing to do with age… i dont know what logic these so called experienced officers have behind this suggestions… Civil Service today is not talked about students from high class. its maximum students r from middle class and lower middle class… who first earns and then they prepare for this prestigious exam.
    And why students securing below 50% should not be allowed to appear in civil service. No single class can decide the future of a man. These so called high class officers r proving this point just to reduce the burden n UPSC. They should know that denial of exam to students securing below 50% is infringement of Article 21 of Indian constitution…
    These old IAS officers should instead brain storm to construct a successful formula to make a system of civil service which are immune to coaching menace so that even a poor boy on the street can make his dream true of becoming an IAS officers…
    Shame on these bogus people . they r just simply doing timepass…..

    1. MUrnal sir lots of thanks ..i belong to poor family my father monthly income was 3 thousand only and i have working in many places , then completed graduation but i have secure 47% marks because i have got many problems in every point of my life after then i have got govt job in 29 years , but my dream and my target was upsc civil service , still time thanks lots of thanks to upsc and govt of india , we all r got our right . .And why students securing below 50% should not be allowed to appear in civil service. No single class can decide the future of a man. These so called high class officers r proving this point just to reduce the burden n UPSC. They should know that denial of exam to students securing below 50% is infringement of Article 21 of Indian constitution…

    2. You are absolutely right,I belong to GEN category and my family is very poor.Due to family problems I had to invest so many years just for solution of my family problem.In the age of 28 I was freed from all family burdens after that I started preparations,qualified pre but could not crack mains this year.These bogus guys don’t even think that everybody hasn’t rich father,so his son’s only task to study and crack in just 21 years of age.

    3. Mrunal Sir & Anil Dutt, so very true! Infact, it is rue that most of us the serious applicants come from humble to most ordinary backgrounds. Most of us could think of subscribing to booklists and materials after we have earned enough for our family and then managed a saving. The weird connection of age and corruption is obnoxious! It is about the collective effort of the society and being true to an individual’s calling. This quick fix approach is heading for a disaster ruining the very ethos! Least said, this is one of the sham reports of the highest order!

    4. I strongly agree with your point.There is nothing to do with the age.I also agree the point that reducing the no. of attempt will solve all the issues rather than reducing the age limit.And regarding about the France trend of selection just let me know you ARC,Is france free from corruption???

  5. धन्यवाद महोदय!

  6. please continue the study plan of india yearbook 2014.

    1. lol …nice thought

  7. When corrupt bureaucrats are caught, why are cases not registered against the Board members who evaluated the candidate’s “suitability” for a career in Civil Services?

  8. When britishers reduced ics exam age limit in india, people were opposing and now indians are doing same thing with indians… what a joke. If they have so much skill to eradicate corruption from india , they should work on “ellegibility for MP and MLAS”, on the basis of corruption.

    1. absolutely correct…

  9. Sir what happened about percentage criteria???

  10. Sir plzz stop wasting time in this Useless report…. plzz carry on with GS Papers …. and we are waiting for that….. Thanks in Advance

  11. seeems like we r the puppets who are ever to be played according to the wishes of these idiots…

  12. good work mrunal for unaveiling this report.I personally belive that if upsc really wants to end this coaching-culture instead of its backbreaking moves it should put ban on these bloody coaching shops through govt.

  13. will a person turn old when he attains 30 years? even hair does not turn grey at 30. if upsc feels 30 years is too much , then request the government to reduce senior citizen age from 60 to 30! height of stupidity! this is not a board exam that all will get through in first attempt itself! there is no clear cut syllabus for the exam and upsc is asking anything on earth! very few vacancies compared to the candidates appearing and india is a very populous country too! the number of aspirants giving the exam is increasing year after year, competition is also cut throat. there is no guarantee that a 24 year old will not do corruption but a 30 year old will definitely do it! better to join politics and do corruption then! at least we will be spared from these exams and these oldies!

  14. Mrunal.. whats going on in this blog.. more and more rubbish is piling up.. what do you expect with all these junk reports.. you are losing your credibility.. with prelims fast approaching, what is this.. previously, i used to watch your blog daily.. now i have lost interest.. i guess this is same with many of the followers of this blog.. stop all this nonsensical reports and give us some precious inputs.. (this is with due respect on you.. nothing offensive!!!)

    1. OMG…………….the intellectual class. so much air……..

    2. bahut padhaku ho bhai!

    3. Dear Ganesh,

      Mrunal is not just giving the material to read for civils prelims exam. He is giving a complete picture of CSE examination. This report will enlighten us about the views of UPSC in candidate selection. As a UPSC aspirant, we should be knowing this. In a broader framework and larger context, it helps us in understanding what is expected from a civil servant (or UPSC aspirant)

      1. dear abhishek, deep, chandra.. firstly.. i am a staunch supporter of this blog.. mrunal is putting lot of efforts for the sake of civils community.. instead of laboriously spending on analyzing this report, he wud have published some other material.. see we wud read this article and don’t retain it.. its like labour of mrunal going waste..

        1. Hi Ganesh,

          Well you have expressed your view and are free to do that but I do not concur with this thought because I see Mrunal in a different league that the rest of the competition websites. If you follow him so closely, you would have come to know that along with writing various articles on Civil services subjects he has also provided us answers to lot many queries over selections, cut-offs, processes etc and this he has been able to do through RTI quries filed by him or like minded people. You would not differ if I say that how people used to speculate about cut-offs earlier and though RTI was available since 2005 it has not been used effectively by anybody till now and even if it would have been, not much known in public domain. What do you think would have caused the heart change in UPSC now when they started posting answer keys?
          This is a public forum where so many people interact on lot many issues apart from studies like when exams were near last time so many ppl made plans to hire common cab. Many of us would be having better information, but please understand there are so many who unfortunately does not have that much info with them and suffer from anxiety constantly. Mrunal has provided them a platform to come up with queries and seek answers to them. I am sure so many would have been benefited through this.
          I would request you to be more patient and also consider Mrunal’s situation of dealing with all kind of queries. We have known him since long and hence can vouch for the fact that he would definitely plan his articles according keeping Prelims date in mind.
          Rather than expecting articles of her/his choice, It would be better if people can also contribute to him voluntarily which would probably take some load off him.

    4. Cricket mein match suru hone se pehle PITCH REPORT liya jata he so that u can plan for the game beforehand, same logic also apply here.

    5. Mr.Ganesh why are you so authoritative and demanding in your tone?

      A. Is Mrunal holding gun over your head to read his article?
      B. have you paid ticket price to watch his movie?
      C. have you paid 50-60 thousands to Mrunal as coaching fees?

      You people just criticize and criticize, demand and demand. What was the last time you even said “Thank you” when he wrote a good article? What have you sir done for the community?

      1. Well said Mehul, Mrunal is doing a huge favor on us by working so hard and we all should be thankful to him instead of criticising him.

      2. Dear Mehul…
        A) his articles are so interesting that even someone points gun over our head.. we still keep on reading his articles without much bothering..
        B) When his articles are soo interesting and also helping in gaining knowledge.. why shd we buy tickets to watch a movie?
        C) Mrunal is helping thousands of people(who are not capable of attending classes) for free.. and they wait for his articles daily.. believe me.. we might not be checking our mails daily.. but we open this blog of “OURS” daily.. isn’t it?
        PS: mrunal is not expecting thanks from anyone of us.. instead If a rural student gets into service by studiously following this blog, its the tribute to mrunal..

        1. dear ganesh
          don’t worry. you are not at fault. the words such as rubbish, trash, nonsensical etc. which u used in your comments has irked few fellow aspirants. they might have perceived that u consider mrunal sir’s articles as garbage and got annoyed by your comments. even if truth is spoken rudely or harshly, nobody will accept it. similarly, if u had kept your views in a more polite, humble or dignified way, then your friends would have received your viewpoints in a more positive way. nevertheless, whatever u commented seemed to be spontaneous but i know u didn’t intend to be offensive. hope everybody’s misunderstanding clear about u and i hope i didn’t offend u!

    6. yes.you r correct

  15. I am guy living abroad and I am a graduate from a Canadian university. I always wished to be a civil servant when I was at school. Due to family concerns (typical middle class) I couldn’t realise my dreams at the so called 25 years of age. I was even 25 when I completed my masters and start working. Now that I have saved enough to take care of my parents for an another two years and planning to prepare for UPSC civil services, these guys come out with a recommendation that people above 25 (general category) are not competent. It cant get any stupid than this. And can these guys give one good reason for increasing the age limit to 32 and then all of a sudden decrease it to 25.

    1. Mr.Nigarvekar may be thought himself that his son,his daughter,children of his colleague IAS Officers,IPS Officers must enjoy the Status in which they enjoyed it till yesterday..Also our Great Ministers thought the same and immediately gave assent to this..

  16. Few people who sit in AC offices can’t decide a future of a person who has the calibre to become an Officer. If the candidate has the energy and zeal with him, he can do anything. Why is the public opinion not sought before coming out with bogus arguments.

  17. Are mrunal ye report kyun leak kiya. Ab pub adm walon ko yeh recommendations bhi ratna padega

  18. so age goes directly proportional to level of honesty. this theorem definitely need recognition on International Platforms to improve global governance. A person with corruption in mind can be created at any age. Figure of 2 and 3 at tens place wont make any impact. Honesty, uprightness and doggedness are integrated in personality if cultivated and age doesn’t bring any attrition to it. Coming to malleability, flexibility in views of person is again not an age dependent factor. A person in 22 can be as adamant as of age 42, if the very basic nature is adamant and egoistic and a broad minded person will remain so even at 60. Anyways this exam is not of nature like NDA where all officers have to be trained on same line and no questioning is allowed. In UPSC all officers come with their set of values and norms (irrespective of age), and intentions of completely molding them as per requirements of UPSC,is UTOPIAN. For fulfilling these conditions, introduce special courses at school level only.
    Another fact, all students dont come from Sanskriti school and DPS with a silver spoon in mouth. Generally we observe profiles of only top 10-20 toppers. If a detailed survey comes on all selected candidates, we will definitely find hidden indirect nepotism already in services. A kid or kin of already officers in system, with A class education and geopolitics discussion on breakfast table, with no concern for financial hindrances; can find age 26 justified. What about ppl who struggle first, create a source of income, stablize their financial condition and then prepare on their own income. if you really want so young ppl, merge the exam with either board or NDA exam and then NURTURE them
    So far people don’t concentrate on research and trainings, after reducing the age to 26, i guess students will enroll themselves in correspondence and join coaching right from 18. If coaching institutes are mushrooming and advertising rote learning, isn’t UPSC syllabus and exam pattern is equally responsible for that. They have created image of themselves as devils and made this exam a nightmare, which instead has potential of transforming candidates into responsible and well informed citizens (even if they are not finally selected) and multiplying their potential and broaden their views. I mean you ask to write 5000 words in 180 minutes and expecting learning, originality and creativity to be reflected there. Wake up you eminent and over intelligent people. Top class colleges make ppl away from grass root realities, and epitome is reflected here.
    disheartening fact is that such narrow minded and purely judgmental comments are coming from such eminent personalities who are having the baton of this system. one can imagine the level of prejudice which had made place in UPSC system. in a way or other, it definitely affect all categories of candidates.

  19. uperke budhe log kuch ve suggestion thenge to hamare kya hoga,agar yea reforms accept hogaya to ham group c students kya karenge,puri mehnat pani mein chali jayege

  20. By his logic…those who will go to mid career training in 30s will become corrupt after the training….and our PM has to be most corrupt as he is around 80 greater the age greater the corruption…..this age attempts reduction MIGHT have made sense….if the education system is same throughout the country and every one receiving the same quality of education…..if older people are corrupt ……then there is also a belief that with age comes wisdom and maturity which is very much needed in a country like india with variety of problems…if a 25 yrs old can be trained to be honest..he can also be trained to be corrupt by a politician when he will be posted in the district.

  21. I will turn 27 this July and this year I will be taking my first shot at CSE. I am an engineer by profession, 2010 pass out. After working for almost 4 years in private sector I realized where my actual interest at work lies. Even if I Clear this exam in my first attempt by the time I join the training I will be 28, So how does this makes me vulnerable to corrupt practices. There should be restriction on number of attempts but saying that people who are nearing 30 years of age won’t do justice to their service is a false and an inconsiderate opinion.

  22. i dont know why they want to cut down the age limit.Here in our state,medicos get their degree after 7 years that means if he eners the medical college at 18 years of age,he will come out at the age of 25.So he will be overaged for upsc exam.They donot consider the situations prevailing in some states and the hardships faced by the students.They just know that everyone is having the luxuries which elite class is enjoying…faaltu reports.

  23. ha ha ha…after all recommendation UPSC still thinks a schedule cast doesn’t become corrupt till he is 30 and a candidate of general category is hopeless after 25…yahan b votebank nahi bhoolte…love u guys…

  24. And one more thing if age makes people corrupt then Gandhiji should have become more corrupt with old age but he didn’t. His autobiography says he did all wrongs when he was young:)

    1. No brother..Corruption is directly proportional to age…this formula may be applicable to hon’ble committee members who advice Government as so..

  25. Election commission
    A candidate should not have crossed age of 25 years to be prime minister of india….. otherwise he is suspected for doing corruption in future….. ;)

    1. Excellent..A Person can enter into assembly or parliament at the age 90 or 100 years and he can do his duties very very effectively..But an Youngster of 27 Years is unable to do anything because they he is very old…so he is ineligible to become IAS or IPS…

  26. what is the reality?? above 25 can not give civil service exams??? make me clear plz mrunal sir………

  27. I agree with the report as candidates will come to know @ earlier age whether he can crack the exam r not. instead of wasting year of time. as per the report thier should not be any optional, its correct as we have seen some paper come easy and some difficult… adv for some and disadv for others…
    This report should be implemented ASAP….

    1. you need to look from different perspective…

      1. @Ranjit Sanghvi,
        Let me ask you when have you started realizing yourself that you are fit for ICS.
        I admit that the committee have bring out some valid reason out of many like you have mentioned.
        But there other ways around which the problem can be tackle such as reducing the no. of attempt despite of reducing the Age limit.
        we should give a chance for the experience people so that people from diverse back ground can joined .
        So experience need time

    2. Mr.Gentleman, if you are of my age around 23 years, i have some expectations about your background.
      1.May be your father is a billionere….but i have no father..he passed away when i am 4 years.My mother earns Rs.150/- per day ..She look after me and my two sisters ..
      2.May be you had studied in Highly Infrastructured Corporate School with AC class rooms..But i was teached Under the tree in Zilla Parishad School..
      3.May be your parents arrange some tutions or study hours after your school hours..But after school hours, i have to take some grass and look after my three buffalos which are our main income source..
      4.Finally may be you are familiar with the terms like IAS or IPS at your School Days..But i first listened this word only after completion of my Graduation in Seraching of any Job oppurtunities..
      5.May be you have no need to do any job till you achieve IAS, but now i am a State Government Employee and i have to stabilise my family economically and i have to earn enough for my preparation for Civils..

      Mr.RANJIT SANGHVI There are crores of students like me who are continuing their Education without atleast basic amenities..Only we knows the difficulties of Rural people because we grow on it..

      Mr.Nigarvekar and other hon’ble Committee Members exactly think like you and recommend the Government to reduce the Maximum age limit and close the doors for lakhs of Rural students..My honest appeal to you is think with a broad mind…

  28. Mr ganesh when u cant do any thng thn u shud keep ur mouth shut.how cn u b so authoritative and dictate mrunal sir like this.have u ever wrote any article on this site. have u ever helped mrunal sir.No thn stoped doing mockery of him.after dis irrational act of urs, u must offer a sincere apology to mrunal sir

    1. dear nadeem, if i had that experience to do something, i would have done it by now.. dont compare me with mrunal yaar.. he is doing a laborious work for benefit of rural aspirants without expecting any returns.. See, i might have been authoritative in my tone.. but i had posted that comment with deep concern.. i have also mentioned in it that i wrote it out of due respect to mrunal…

      1. nahi bhai aisa nahi hota pehle goli mardo aaur uske baad sorry boldo

  29. DONT WORRY THESE RECOMMENDATIONS NOT GOING TO IMPLEMENTED NOT EVEN ONE,JUST KEEP PREPARING AND REACH YOUR GOALS.GOOD DAY. :)

  30. thank you mrunal sir!

  31. I should b thankful to DoPT for not accepting ridiculous recommendation of Prof.Nigvekar of reducing age limit to 26.The argument given in favour of this recommendation is even more absurd.By his logic then there should be age bar for politicians as well.It is upbringing & surrounding of the individual & values imparted by his/her parents is what makes & moulds his integrity.These kind of people live in their own world of beliefs & write report by sitting in AC offices.They dont even bother to do a field study.I am sure he doesnt have any empirical data to support his recommendations.So it is good for us to leave this crap where it is & carry on with our studies.By the I am no supporter of Rahul Gandhi but we should thank him for increasing age limit.

  32. everyone is laughing at the puerility of their statements ……. hahahaa

  33. UPSC has declared mains results.

  34. ias mains 2013 result is out

  35. result out fr cse mains

  36. @Mrunal,
    Can you please suggest what to do to get into UN CIVIL SERVICE??

  37. good job man! thanks for providing most useful, user friendly, crisp and reliable information.

  38. There is no concrete philosophy behind reducing age bar in public services. If the purpose is to improve governance and increase accountability, it can be done through several other measures. Nobody can judge a person from his seat. Nobody can really understand a person what kind of problems he has gone through or going through in his life. A big exam like civil services can be cracked only if a person studies with full enthusiasm and focus and that comes only if his life is stable in all respects. People from every class have their own set of problems but here it is important to note that persons coming from marginal families have to first set right their own conditions and then they can think of joining creamy layer of the society. Though there are exceptions, but one must think towards the majority lot.

    If the enhanced entry age limit can cause corruption and rigidity in bureaucracy, lower age limit can also produce immature officers who may take hurried and wrong decisions and could face wrath of public and ministers. In where average life expectancy has risen from 32 in 1949 to 72 in 2011, lot of awareness & educational opportunities resulting in extreme level of competition in public examinations, reduction of age limits is highly condemnable.Sooner or later government is planning to enhance superannuation age of its employees to 62 years, I think it is adequate to retain present entry age limits to 32 years recently announced by DoPT in civil services.

  39. i have a great respect and regards for all these learned members who had showered there openions (abdul kalam,rai,nigvekar,etc) for the improvement of the prestigious services.i fully agree with some of their views which focuses on re-design interview system to assess the “SOFT QUALITIES” of candidates- e.g. emotional quotients, man management skills, and leadership qualities etc is definitely a welcome step.however,the logic behind reducing the age to 26 is beyond comprehension.Its true that at a lower age its easy to mold one’s way of thinking,but,this same age make them susceptible to pressures,and perks.these people on one hand advocate reducing age and attempts and on the seeks govt offices and constitutional position after their retirements exposes their hypocrisy…

  40. होता वही है जो आक़ा (केंद्र सरकार, Central Government) चाहते है्। आका के Decision को कोई नहीं टाल सकता, चाहे UPSC क्यों ना हो। इसलिए आका को प्रसन्न रखिए, काम अपने आप बन जाएँगे। जय हिन्द

  41. This आक़ा can be any ruling party in Centre, (Congress, BJP, AAP, PAAP, BAAP, etc, etc….). No matter what the recommendations say and who proposes these, … Final consent lies with Cabinet (आक़ा). It has already been observed in case of New Format of IIT-JEE (Sibal Effect), UPSC CSE and Reservation policies, etc.

  42. no, its not fair to reduce the age n no of attempts

  43. well well another bombardment awaited and what a rubbish excuse “21-28 saal kae toppers..and less prone to corruption…” pata nahin where they get infor from if it was like that then shubra tripati was in her 30s …mona prurti was in her 30s i guess….agar conditions banani then stop the enterance of IITians and IIM people who are unnecessarily capturing two seats …yahan bhi ladoo wahan bhi…pehle patterns ab age reduction..what is it man…bol do..no substabdard like guys and gals other than iitian and iim and pmt and wht not can only apply rest to leave..what do they think we dont have enough brain and ideas to apply for this country.. we are far far better as we touch and we know the ground reality………karo changes who stops but this age reduction is a real mess…:(

  44. UPSC must start recruiting at the age og 20 and end the service at 30 coz in any ways according to their experts a person is more intended to be corrupt at higher age. Nigvekar ji’s formula age is directly proportional to corruption! check out the level of unethical ,immoral,corrupt view of senior officials and politicians. God save the aspirants.
    This shall too pass away……………….

  45. need of the civil service is to dug out the best talent across country. and people from rural background are not trained by their families right from the childhood unlike the sons and daughters of those sitting in ACs.it is absurd to even think that only young age people’s are honest. what about the maturity and variegated domain knowledge relatively senior aspirants bring in. it is like denying opportunity to the lower and middle class students to serve the country who came to know about this exam late but decided on their own to pursue the cause. ethics tought us that it is EQ and flexibility in personality that determines the individuals suitability to learn new things and not the age. we need to be accomodative , democratic and open minded and not the dictatorial or authoritative

  46. Hello all
    Firstly, i am really disappointed that most of the top level officials/bureaucrats have such narrow vision.
    I suggest that they all should go into flashback & check the age at which they joined the services, I bet most of them would be 30 or 30+
    Secondly, as mentioned above if there is a reference to system of other countries, it should be thorough.
    If the committee is to bring reforms then it should also take into consideration the veiws of the aspirants as they are the ones who would ultimately have to bear the brunt.
    Lastly, if they are to take candidates from +2 level as suggested by some, then the IAS coaching institues will also start foundation batches viz-a-viz the IIT-JEE coachings.

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