- E5/P1: Video Lecture by Kavan Limbasiya (Rank-198/UPSC-2014)
- Ancient Greek Thinkers
- Method of dialectic: Plato and Socrates
- Socrates (469-399 BC)
- Plato (427-347 BC)
- Aristotle (384-322 BC)
E4/P1: Lecture by Kavan Limbasiya (Rank-198/UPSC-2014)
First we start with Western Moral thinkers, then we’ll look at Indian/Eastern moral thinkers.
Youtube Link: youtube.com/watch?v=oBFCWJ3ZLwU
Ancient Greek Thinkers
Socrates, Aristotle, Plato. All three of them advocated Virtue Ethics-Temperance, Justice,Ā Character.
Method of dialectic: Plato and Socrates
- How does knowledge come out? One way: Guru to give sermons to his disciples.
- But Plato and Socrates adopted the “Method of dialectic”- doing Question and answer session with the audience, and thus knowledge came out.
- Also known as mid-wifery method. Just like Mid-wife facilitates the birth of a child from mother. Same way knowledge is inside, you just need to search and bring it out.
- Socrates called up a slave and with dialectic method, he brought out a theorem of mathematics, thereby proving all men are equal whether slave or aristocrat.
- Dialectic method is a mature method to elicit knowledge.
- Sophists used rhetoric method / propaganda to gain emotional response from the audience, instead of moral reasoning. Ā They had degraded the culture of dialogue in Greek.
- Similarly, today twitter and Facebook has degraded the culture of dialogue among youth.
- Both Socrates and Plato were against democracy, because in their times, Junta was unaware, due to lack of quality-public dialogue.
Socrates (469-399 BC)

Anti-Sophist
- “Sophists” was a philosophical school in the Greek society.
- They promoted a corrupted society, namesake democracy, might is right, full of moral corruption.
- So, Socrates promoted ideas of Moral virtues against ideas of Sophism. Subsequently, he fell out from the eyes of the government.
- People might have considered him a threat because of he associated with Aristocratic Youth like Plato. Similar groups of Aristocratic Youths had played a pivotal role in befalling the Democracy in 411 BC & 404 BC in Athens.
- Socrates was charged with āCorrupting the youth of the cityā.
- He was given a chance to defend himself, but he didn’t. (In the contemporary Athens, people were tried before a court of fellow citizens numbering hundreds. This made the skill of Rhetoric very important)
- He was sent to jail, and chance to escape from there, but he didn’t.
- He was given desi liquor poison in the jail, he drank it and died. Naturally, Plato reacted to it by terming it as a wicked & shameful act & since then, he is believed to be martyr for reason & truth.
- John Stuart Mill compared it with Christās Crucifixion.
| Before Socrates | Socrates | Sophists |
| Thales, Empedocles, Pythagoras, Heraclitus, Democritus etc. they focused on fundamental nature of the universe; something similar to present day cosmologists & physicists. | fundamentals of āVirtueā ā e.g. love, justice, morality, courage, friendship etc. | Method of rhetoric & persuasion |
Coaching method of Socrates
| Did not give handouts |
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| Did not take fees |
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| Did not claim to be omniscient |
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| Did not dictate model-answers |
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| Gave personal coaching |
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To sum up, Socratesā philosophy remained totally centered around Values.
āIf you will take my advice, you will think little of Socrates, and a great deal more of truthā – Socrates
Moral Heroism. Socrates is regarded as the founder of Moral Philosophy. He founded the method of trying to reach truth by persistent questioning.
To Quote Mill : Socrates was…
- āAcknowledged master of all the eminent thinkers who have since livedā
- āthe man who probably of all then born had deserved least of mankind to be put to death as a criminalā
Plato (427-347 BC)
- He was a disciple of Socrates and propagated his ideas further.
- He was the first western thinker who wrote his works & whose works remained intact.
- Socrates only discussed about moral problems whereas Plato discussed Moral as well as worldly philosophical problems with equal importance. These also included Mathematics, nature etc.
- But Plato always agreed with Socrates that the real harm possible to a person is the harm to the soul and therefore it is preferable to suffer wrong than commit it.
- Just like Socrates, Plato taught people to āto think of oneself (and any question) independently & to be ready to question everybody & everything.ā
- To quote Plato – āPhilosophy begins in wonderā
- He also rejected the idea that āvirtue is solely a matter of knowing what is rightā. Thus, he gave practice of truth more important than preaching/knowing.
Form, ideas and realms
- Plato gave a theory of Form & Idea ā Everything in this world is a decaying copy of something whose ideal form exists outside space & time.
- real reality as it is stable ā and the visible world only offers glimpses of that real reality.
- Visible world where everything is always becoming something but nothing is permanent – āEverything is becoming, nothing isā ā Plato.
- physical world exemplified mathematical order expressible in mathematical formulas.
- This was further developed into the philosophy of Body & Soul ā known as Platonism & became source for Christian Philosophies as well.
- Thus, Socrates & Plato were also referred by later Christians as ā āChristians before Christ.ā

Plato Hated BA/MA Arts graduates
- Plato advocated austerity and self-abnegation. Soul should remain aloof from bodily pleasures.
- Subordination of individual wishes/aims for communal life.
Because of above ideas, Plato was hostile to arts stream, claiming that
- Arts is a danger to soul.
- Theyāre doubly deceptive, who glamorized & bejeweled emotional attachment towards the worldly things;
- They keep a person away from grasping the other realm.
Plato Hated Democracy also
- Plato was even more critical of democracy than Socrates, because his guru (Socrates) was hanged in Democracy.
- Plato said typical āDemocratic Characterā is superficial, feckless & easily led (due to too much liberty & idea that all are equal).
- Such ādemocraticā people are easy prey for manipulative, power-hungry which gradually turns democracy into tyranny.
- Therefore, quality of the leadership is too important else entire institution (Democracy) gets maligned and people will loose faith.
- In Greek times, Democracy had become Mobocracy. No one had fundamental rights; Justice was done in open-amphitheater, where people decided the punishment.
- Plato is the warning sign for our democracy- there is a limit beyond which you shouldn’t stretch it.
Conflicts & classes
- Human is a mixture of three conflicting elements: āPassion, Intellect & Willā.
- Therefore āintellectā must use āwillā to control āpassionā.
- He extrapolated this idea on society as well, that
- We need auxiliaries (intermediate police class) to keep the masses in order
- We need āguardiansā / āphilosophical rulersā to give philosophical direction to society as whole.
- This was Somewhere similar to the Communist societies of the 20th century.
- The classes were in this ideal society were to be divided tripartite on the base of Meritocracy.
- Women were also to be involved unlike the contemporary society.
Books / contribution
| Book-Republic |
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| Book-Symposium |
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| Term-Academy |
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To end, it must thus be noted that Plato was highly interested in āInstitutionā apart from being mainly concerned with Values.
Aristotle (384-322 BC)
| Plato | Aristotle |
|---|---|
| He was Aristotleās teacher. | He was Platoās best, most gifted & most famous student |
| Books; republic, symposium | āThe Politicsā & āThe Nicomachean Ethicsā (named after his son, Nicomachus). |
| Focused on values and institutions | Apart from values, ethics, politics, he also focused on many optional subjects like zoology, logic, psychology, botany, astronomy, physics, poetry, meteorology, economy, metaphysics, rhetoric etc. |
| Invented the word āacademyā |
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| Plato and Aristotle had disagreement over many topics. | āPlato is dear to me, but dearer still is truthā ā Aristotle. |
| He wrote a zoology book āThe History of Animalsā- even Charles Darwin bowed to it. |
- Aristotle systematized ālogicā wherein he worked out valid & invalid form of inferences.
- Aristotle is termed as a great observer. In Philosophy and all other fields of work, he approaches his subjects by recording & systematizing numerous observations. Thus, his method is more āempiricalā. Ā āWhat is Being?ā and āAll man by virtue desire to knowā are his famous quotes.
- Aristotle derived the four causes namely ā Material cause, Efficient cause, Formal cause & Final cause for anything to be the thing it is.
- Aristotle gave emphasis to Teleology in Philosophy & Politics. (Teleology is a method to study & direct the actions based on the final purpose or end result of any being or action.)
- In Philosophy ā Rationality is the final goal, all the virtues & wisdom prepare us for good life & this good life must consist of Rational Contemplation.
- In Politics ā the objective of a city-state is to maximize the opportunities for its citizens to pursue the good life.
- Aristotle gave primacy to Substance to be the binding agent for the cosmos instead of Time & Location. Substance is something whose definition does not rely on existence of any other thing besides the substance itself.
- For Change & Motion, he emphasized that all changes & motions must have a cause & all causes must themselves be caused. This Philosophy of his leads to an infinite regress that there would be no first cause as there must be an antecedent cause for all the causes.
- To answer this he says that there must be a First, unmoved, Perfect Cause & mover. Here Aristotle comes to associate with God.
Virtue, Ethics & golden mean
- Virtue is a disposition to act in certain ways and not others. Ethics is the highest goal.
- We can develop Virtue by practicing it, as a skill.
- So, if you live a good life, then youāve developed the skill(/s) of acting virtuously.
- In the book Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle has given āTable of Virtues & Vicesā
| FEELING | EXCESS | MEAN | DEFICIENCY |
|---|---|---|---|
| Fear and Confidence | Rashness | Courage | Cowardice |
| Pleasure and Pain | Licentiousness/Self-indulgence | Temperance | Insensibility |
| Getting and Spending (minor) |
Prodigality | Liberality | Illiberality/Meanness |
| Getting and Spending (major) |
Vulgarity/Tastelessness | Magnificence | Pettiness/Niggardliness |
| Honour and Dishonour (major) |
Vanity | Magnanimity | Pusillanimity |
| Honour and Dishonour (minor) |
Ambition/empty vanity | Proper ambition/pride | Unambitiousness/undue humility |
| Anger | Irascibility | Patience/Good temper | Lack of spirit/unirascibility |
| Self-expression | Boastfulness | Truthfulness | Understatement/mock modesty |
| Conversation | Buffoonery | Wittiness | Boorishness |
| Social Conduct | Obsequiousness | Friendliness | Cantankerousness |
| Shame | Shyness | Modesty | Shamelessness |
| Indignation | Envy | Righteous indignation | Malicious enjoyment/Spitefulness |
e.g. excess confidence = rashness. Excess fear = cowrdice. So golden mean is ācourageā ā the best virtue. This is also famously known as Aristotleās ādoctrine of the meanā
Happiness
| UtilitarianismĀ (J.S.Mills) | Aristotle |
| Happiness is a state of mind. happiness as pleasure and the absence of pain. | Happiness is a matter of āliving well or doing wellā. |
| based on the principle that “actions are right in proportion as they tend to promote happiness, wrong as they tend to produce the reverse of happiness.” | āwe always choose happiness for itself and never for any other reasonā |
| virtuous living, should be counted as part of personās happiness. | Happiness is an evaluative term, a concept in terms of which you assess the course of a life.Therefore, true happiness means living as a rational being. |
Politics
- Aristotle is also considered as the first āPolitical Scientistā.
- Aristotle applied the āScientific Methodsā & rational analysis with politics.
- He defined human to be a āPolitical Animal by natureā apart from being a social one.
- because humans alone have the power of speech which serves to signal useful & harmful ā just & unjust apart.
- Human alone have a perception of good & evil, just & unjust, etc.
- āState is an association of persons whose aim is the best life possibleā ā Aristotle ā The Politics
- a stateless person cannot practice virtue i.e. cannot live well, develop & flourish like a human. Thus, happiness is exercise of virtue and only within the context of state (polis) can one find happiness.
Vagueness of Practical Sciences
- Aristotle considered practical sciences such as Ethics, Politics etc. much more vague & compartmentalized. I.e. Ethics & Politics are far less accurate in methods & procedures than āLogicā.
- This is because these sciences deal with people. Now people are quite variable in their behaviour.
- Thus Aristotle never laid down hard & fast rules in Ethics & Politics. He even didnāt declare any one type of Constitution as best.
- This is developed from his view that ādifferent forms of study requires different approachesā.
Unequal Society
Aristotle considered
- male superior than female
- citizen (elite) superior than slaves. He supported democracy over oligarchy because that was the better decision procedure for ruling group of citizens to a make.
Aristotle did not believe in modern ideas of Equality or Freedom for all. (But then again, we canāt expect such modern political correctness in a person living in ancient times.)
Visit Mrunal.org/Ethics for more study material on Ethics.


Thanku sir
Mising u since long
Any economic articles series or lectures relating to mains will b cherished by ur true followers
Thanks again
I have made a typo in filling DAF, jumbled 2 letters in writing my previous employerās name. I know this is immense fallout on my part and somehow I even missed it in proof reading. Please let me know if this can have serious repercussion on the interview? Can it be a talking point there and what are the chances of this mistake affecting the interview?
Good Stuff. Thanks Mrunal sir…
Seems Mrunal is facing his own personal dilemma or he is waiting to load us trucks golden notes
yey…
Mrunal bhai is back to propagate ethical values to his disciples in lucid manner..; -)
Thank you Mrinal Sir.
Sir, what about other parts of E4. Or it had just one part E1/P1
for sociology videos ..contact 8447972054
Please sir tell me the booklist for IAS preliminary exam 2016 Hindi medium please sir
sir will u continue with mains economics lectures?
great sir ji
Thanks Sir :)
Socrates ->Plato –>Aristotle –>Alexander what a great chain of teacher-student.Hope Mrunal bhai also creates much more chains like these.
can anybody tell when does upsc acknowledges about DAF receipt by email ? please reply
Kya koi bta sakya h optional ki tyari abhi karni cahiye
A valuable asset
super
happy diwali alll
why no economics for mains 2015 as promised????
Mrunal sir aVery happy Diwali to you..
happy diwali to mrunal bhai and all
happy diwali to Mrunal sir and his team and all the followers of mrunal. org
plz anybody tell me dt is it sufficient 2 study da editorials 4rm site of ‘da hindu’ or it z necessary 2 subscribe 4 e- ppr
in plato “Law” a book written by him was 2nd most imp book after “republic”. in it he gave a more realistic idea of the state as in republic everything was idealistic and not possible. he realized it later in his life and wrote LAW.
there is also nothing about ideal state,communism,diff b/w plato communism and modern communism and fascism, best state philosophy,education system, concept of justice, dielectics as a means for discussion.
i think these are also very imp if we have to discuss plato.
also aristotle critique of plato should be mentioned.
I am a B-Tech 2nd student I want to focus on IAS exam So how I prepare for it but I have no idea for this exam please give me some information for this exam that where I collect the knowledge like books writer e.t.c.
@neer
Even i have not received the acknowledgment though my application reached there on 3rd november.
I called up the authorities only to be informed that we should not panick and keep the speed post receipt safely with us.
Rest assured..:-)
Anybosy of geography optional, writing mains this year in Bhubaneswar and wants to collaborate for last minute discussion and question answering.
Would be thankful to get a valid response
Mrunal sir, please upload remaining scripts of ethics lectures as early as possible.
thanks sir
Sir post the remaining parts of the ethics series.
Sir plzz cont ethics series..